Talk:Saiyans (KidVegeta
Ultra Super Saiyan >More physically powerful >drawbacks in durability FPSSJ -> Weaker than Ascended Super Saiyan, but stronger when fighting Cell? Does not make sense. Geti186 (talk) 10:38, January 18, 2014 (UTC) #In regards to Ultra Super Saiyan, this is how it works. I didn't invent the transformation; Toriyama did. And in canon, it is a form that Trunks uses which is equally as powerful as Cell, but it has the drawback of being very slow and consuming an extreme amount of ki. These drawbacks actually make the form unusable, despite it being extremely powerful. You could get any of this information by watching the anime, reading the manga, or even using the Dragon Ball Wiki/Dragon Ball encyclopedia. This is basic stuff for the Dragon Ball universe, and I'm wondering why you don't already know it. #For FPSS, this form is not really a form, but a mastery of the Super Saiyan transformation. It allows the user to not have to use up much ki when in Super Saiyan as well as be more used to the form, thus reducing the drawbacks of the form itself. Additionally, both Goku and Gohan had higher base strengths than Vegeta or Trunks, so their regular Super Saiyan form could outclass the other two. The key here is that base strength matters as much as multipliers do (because of this, Goku in Super Saiyan 1 would be significantly stronger than Goten or Trunks in Super Saiyan 2, for example). Again, all of this knowledge is readily available if you read or watched the series. -KidVegeta (talk) 1. I don't know how you fathomably managed to put "durability" as a drawback when he's stronger now. There is no durability drawback, only a speed drawback. I wonder where you got that durability drawback from, because it's pretty obvious that you, once again, out of sheer arrogance, fail to grasp the point I am obviously pointing out. 2. You're just regurgitating DBZ information, which I know enough of already. I can already tell that you're virtually lacking in the aspect known as "common sense", as you obviously do not know how to address the point mentioned. Obviously base strengths matter in transformations (you think I did not know that?), but the thing is, both of them still could not fare well against the Cell Jrs, which renders your point obsolete. I was thinking that the mastery of the transformation would give a greater multiplier than what you are suggesting. Anyway, you're one to talk about DBZ Knowledge, considering you're thinking Power Levels are measured via muscles (lolwut?), if that were the case, it would be impossible to hide power levels at all.Geti186 (talk) 06:45, January 19, 2014 (UTC) In an effort to end this petty conversation, this will be my last response. I will try to cover everything you brought up in detail, but bear in mind, I will not respond further unless it is about something else. #I understand what you are trying to say, but the fact that the form is a physical strain on the body, pushing it beyond its limits (a canon fact, mind you), the durability weakness is true. USS requires massive amounts of ki to maintain. As such, the user will not only be slow from the added muscle mass, but become tired from the drain on their energy, which reduces their ability to withstand attacks. That is what I mean by a loss in durability. #Goku could have taken on the Cell Jr.s (at least one) if had not been tired from his fight with Cell. Goku and Gohan had higher base power levels than Vegeta and Trunks. As such, when they went FPSS, the 50x strength was actually more than the 75x for Vegeta. I don't think it would be stronger than Trunks' form, but USS is so slow that it wouldn't matter anyway. But again, FPSS is not a transformation. It is, in the truest sense, the pure form of SS1. It's a state of familiarity in the form that allows the user to maintain SS1 with minimal ki output (which would otherwise make the user tired and lower their durability in a fight). This allows them to have higher stamina and access their ki reserves at lower costs. Since FPSS does not push SS1 beyond its limits, it maintains the canon multiplier of SS1 at 50x base strength. But the ability to more easily raise and lower one's power level while in Super Saiyan and use less ki is a very significant advantage, nonetheless. -KidVegeta (talk) Thank you for the clarification. I asked about the durability weakness because it wasn't an actual weakness (because a loss of power is basically the same as a loss in durability, in any front). Geti186 (talk) 08:30, January 25, 2014 (UTC)